Episode 9: Christian Bagg
“Immediately it dawned on me that I was going to be 100 percent reliant on technology in some way, shape, or form.”
Christian Bagg
Blazing New Trails
Christian Bagg has a fearless appetite for outdoor sports. As an avid adventurer, he thrives on adrenaline-pumping feats. But in 1996, a snowboarding accident in his native Calgary left him paralyzed at the age of 20. “I’ve experienced loss for sure,” says Christian, “but maybe not in a conventional way. I’m super pragmatic.”
Refusing to let his loss of mobility dictate the boundaries of his life, Christian channeled his experience as a machinist into creating a revolutionary bike that would get him back to the great outdoors. His relentless pursuit of innovation led to the birth of Bowhead Corp, a company that stands at the forefront of adaptive sports technology.
Its flagship product, the Bowhead Reach, features an electric engine and an articulating axle. Scroll through Bowhead’s Instagram feed, and you’ll see footage of paraplegic athletes competing at dizzying speeds across the most treacherous terrain. Many of these videos include Christian himself.
He says, “When a boy with cerebral palsy sees these amazing athletes blowing minds with their bikes, it gives hope and a sense of community.”
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Transcript
(Edited slightly for clarity)
Melissa Ceria: Christian Bagg, welcome.
Christian Bagg: Thank you for having me.
Melissa Ceria: Christian, this spring you took part in the Fernie Gravel Grind in the Canadian Rockies. It's a race that's open to all cyclists, but you entered it on your Bowhead race bike and covered about 100 km in over three hours and 20 minutes, and you came seventh overall. Can you briefly describe the challenges of that course?
Christian Bagg: So, it's a gravel race which has gained huge popularity in the cycling community because road cycling has the obvious danger of cars flying by you. And so, gravel has turned into this safe place for cycling. Really. And because of that, there are many, many, many races popping up. So it's actually pretty awesome. And being that it's so new, there's not a lot of rules surrounding it, which works really well with my personality. So you can just enter. There's no, no one's like, well, what kind of bike do you have? What do you, like, let's stop and go over the rules behind this. It's like, yeah, just, just enter. So it's a very welcoming community. You pick the distance you want to do. I picked the long one, and there’s generally, they design these courses with lots and lots of climbing involved. And off you go.
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Melissa Ceria [00:02:32] They're like narrow trails. There are bridges. Was there even water that you had to cross?
Christian Bagg [00:02:38] No, not in this one. A more recent one, the Cranbrook Gravel Grind, there was some more navigating of things like that. And then the 24-hour race. That's the beauty of competing in outdoor nature events, in that every course is vastly different because nature differs significantly to where you are.
Melissa Ceria [00:02:59] You use your arms to power your bike, and then there's also a motor that helps it function as an e-bike. Is that correct?
Christian Bagg [00:03:05] So the pedal-assist portion of the bike is the exact same motor that would be on a conventional e-bike, that you would go to the bike shop and buy. What it would do for you is it would sort of give you a big power boost over someone else on a two-wheeled bike. For us, for me, it just sort of brings you up to the level of being at very similar speed as to someone on a two-wheeled bike, with a similar fitness level. So now you're, it’s really sort of apples to apples. Whether or not it's exact, that’s semantics. It doesn't really matter. It's more that whereas once you would have a bunch of cyclists go away and you'd be competing with yourself, now you're competing with them. Whether or not, who gets the goal, doesn't really matter. It's more that you get to have these little, little races within a race. And that's what racing's about at this level. It's just about fun.
Melissa Ceria [00:04:03] Right? But you strike me as the kind of guy that kind of wants to win too.
Christian Bagg [00:04:07] Well, I want to win. That's certainly for me. Yeah, I want to beat my last time, but I've had these great little races like I've done these cycle or Cyclocross races, which is, like in a field. And I had an epic battle with a 14-year old boy. And it was, it was just super fun. It's not like anyone was winning the Olympics, but it was, it was one of my best races, I had.
Melissa Ceria [00:04:32] That's awesome. You've been working towards this for over 20 years, since the snowboarding accident that radically changed your life. What happened on the day of your accident?
Christian Bagg [00:04:44] I was 20 and it was a Big Air competition. And back in the day, this was pre helmets, I don't think anyone had a helmet. And like pre-physics of the jump, there's just sort of someone built a jump, and then you jumped it. Anyways. Long story short, I went big as you did in a Big Air competition. And I rotated in the air and sort of landed almost as if I was on my hands and knees, but with my head tucked in and sort of immediately blew up T seven, eight and nine. So that seven, eight, and ninth vertebrae in the thoracic region and that was it, and then sort of slid to the bottom of the hill. And, and the rest is history.
Melissa Ceria [00:05:32] What point did you realize that you were paralyzed?
Christian Bagg [00:05:36] Immediately. Yeah, it was a really weird feeling. You know, when you're injured like that, and the medics rush in. They put you on the spine board and they put your hands straight down by your sides. And I couldn't feel my legs. And I remember, I remember always like, keeping, to try and, like, bring my hands back up and cross them on my chest. But that's not where they wanted them. So that was, that was kind of the moment when I put two and two together.
Melissa Ceria [00:06:04] And what went through your mind then?
Christian Bagg [00:06:07] I don't know, I mean we're, now we're, 28 years ago. Right. So I'm sure whatever I remember now isn't what actually went through my mind. My sister was there, and I do remember telling her how stupid I was, so I think I felt pretty stupid.
Melissa Ceria [00:06:22] Was that your first reaction?
Christian Bagg [00:06:24] Yeah. Just like if you're cutting vegetables in the kitchen and you cut your hand, you're like, oh my God, like I'm so stupid, because you, you know, that you could cut a vegetable without cutting your hand. So what did you do that you know, forced this error. And it was just a giant version of that. Why did I do that? I didn't have to do that, but I did, and now I feel stupid.
Melissa Ceria [00:06:47] You had a lot of support around you. At the time. You said that your mother played a pivotal role. How did she support you? What was her message to you?
Christian Bagg [00:06:55] Both my parents, my family, my sister. We are a tight, loving unit, family wise, and my mom is quite a pragmatic and tough person. She's made decisions in her life that have been difficult, but she's made them. And so, I think beyond all the love that I got, was, in some ways, her, like, you need to deal with this attitude. Kind of like tough love, in a sense. And knowing that, with that, that I would be better off. So, you know, like a get up, go to work, you need to get back on the horse type attitude when you're inclined to not.
Melissa Ceria [00:07:41] And that really helped you.
Christian Bagg [00:07:44] Absolutely. I truly believe that purpose is really important in life, obviously. I mean, I say obviously, but I think some people struggle with that, from child stars to, trust fund children. There's things like that. You know, you read in the news about the struggles they have and it's I think it's because money is, you know, we all wish we could win the lottery, but the reality is, purpose is more important.
Melissa Ceria [00:08:14] What else guided you through that time?
Christian Bagg [00:08:16] I got really lucky in my chosen occupation at the time, which was as a machinist. You wouldn't think that that would be the ultimate skill set to have in life. But the things I wanted to do required equipment. So as a paraplegic, sort of immediately it dawned on me that I was going to be 100 percent reliant on technology in some way, shape, or form. And I had this very beginning of a career where I built things. So the technology didn't exist that I needed. So I now fell into this opportunity where I had the skills to create it. And I think that was a, that was a, really important piece of the puzzle, because that, I was handed my purpose on a silver platter. It wasn't like, oh, I should do this. It's like, I have to do this.
Melissa Ceria [00:09:12] Do you say that with the benefit of hindsight, or do you think you were aware of that pretty quickly?
Christian Bagg [00:09:17] Well, I think with the benefit of hindsight. I think when I was in my early 20s, I wasn't aware of a whole lot.
Melissa Ceria [00:09:25] I was going to ask you because now you're a father of two young children. Looking back on this experience through the lens of a parent, what would that be like?
Christian Bagg [00:09:35] I mean, a lot of credit to my parents for how they dealt with it and reacted because as a parent now, I would obviously be mortifying. It'd be really hard. And you can't, then as a parent, you're the least important emotionally, at least as a forward facing symbol. For however sad and distraught they were, they didn't show it and they couldn't show it. And you can't show it to a child because it was about me. But yeah, difficult, and and who knows? I mean, the unknown would have been just as scary for them in a lot of ways.
Melissa Ceria [00:10:12] You were, as an athlete, physically very fit at the time of the accident. So certainly that helped you push through, right?
Christian Bagg [00:10:20] Absolutely. Yeah. I've often said, like, even to go on a simple hike in a wheelchair, I need to be 90% as strong as I've ever been, whereas someone who's quite out of shape could accomplish that on feet. So staying healthy is sort of a necessity. The less functionality you have.
Melissa Ceria [00:10:40] By your own account, you suffered these terrible spasms for two years. Some of them were so severe you've described them as hurtling you from, from your own chair. And it seems that your pragmatic personality, which you've already touched on but really kicked in here, and, and you decide to undergo surgery to sever your spinal cord, which very few people opt for. Right? I mean, what was your reasoning?
Christian Bagg [00:11:08] I don't think it was as tough a choice as you can imagine it was. I was at rock bottom. Your openness to extreme things is like, if you've got nowhere to go, you, you need to make a decision. Otherwise, you're just sitting there in pain and you're not living. So I was willing to risk almost anything for the opportunity of getting back to living.
Melissa Ceria [00:11:36] Your notion of risk at that point was probably very different.
Christian Bagg [00:11:41] At that time, I couldn't imagine going on the way I was going on, like it wasn't a life.
Melissa Ceria [00:11:49] This was essentially a measure to save yourself.
Christian Bagg [00:11:51] Yeah, absolutely. But a calculated one in, a basic knowledge of the human body and science. This thing that I injured is what made me paralyzed, but it's slightly connected still. So let's disconnect it. Let's unplug it. If you were to talk to a family doctor or anybody like that, they would say, absolutely, that's how it works. But if you talk to a neurosurgeon, they're like. Yeah. It should work, but it might not work. And, and you're like, really? But, I mean, at that point it was the risk.
Melissa Ceria [00:12:30] I mean, it's kind of astounding because I was reading the National Spinal Cord Injury Statistical Center, I think 79% of traumatic spinal cord injury cases in, since 2015 are male. Does that surprise you?
Christian Bagg [00:12:47] No, since I broke my back and relatively quickly started endeavors to sell adaptive equipment, I've known that that statistic has remained the same for the last, at least since I was injured, 28 years ago. So yeah, it's, and then to further, it's of the 80/20 split male to female, then you've got another 80% of the male are between 18 and 25-years old.
Melissa Ceria [00:13:14] It's worth noting, I think, that one of the primary reasons are vehicle crashes, that's the leading cause of injury followed by falls. But then we also need to count acts of violence, primarily gunshot wounds.
Christian Bagg [00:13:29] Right? Yes.
Melissa Ceria [00:13:30] And recreational activities. So essentially, you know, these are the types of injuries that often put young people at risk.
Christian Bagg [00:13:38] Yeah. And I mean, car accidents can also be fueled by the same things that sports are fueled by, like testosterone and bad decisions.
Melissa Ceria [00:13:48] Does your work, Christian, lead you to talk about and build awareness around this topic or not necessarily.
Christian Bagg [00:13:54] Not really. I've never been. I think there's a lot of people who, who, fight the fight on spinal cord awareness. If you've got to pick a battle. I've picked that technology battle, I've picked, how do I, how do I get myself or others doing the fun things again? Limiting people getting injured isn't, that's not my game or the or even on the other end of the spectrum, a cure or working towards a cure. Spinal cord research is not in my wheelhouse either. Very early on when I was getting my cord cut, my neurosurgeon, Doctor John Hurlbut, who I trusted implicitly. He was, he really understood me as a person. There was a lot of controversy around getting my cord cut in the medical community in Calgary, and pretty much everyone was against it but him, but I think he was the only one who understood who I was. I had asked, will this preclude me from getting some sort of cure? He's like, I think we're 50 to 100 years away. And there's probably people who are listening going, well, Elon Musk with his Neuralink just came out. And, you know, maybe he's wrong. Maybe he is wrong. I’d have wasted 26 years of my life until Elon Musk does or doesn't solve it.
Melissa Ceria [00:15:14] There was no way of predicting that.
Christian Bagg [00:15:16] There is no way of predicting Elon Musk in the world, thank goodness.
Melissa Ceria [00:15:21] Once you make that decision, your life really comes into focus, right? And you decide that you're going to literally build your way back to freedom. As a machinist, you return to the workshop. I'm just wondering, what did freedom mean to you at that time?
Christian Bagg [00:15:38] At that time. The freedom to me was like to lay down in a bed without my legs violently kicking and having to hold them in a fetal position. I think there was, there was a long time of just getting used to being not in pain. And so like, you don't wake up and think, oh great, now I can go work, I can do go do this, do that. Like, you've got really simple things to enjoy. And because you're young, it happens quickly. But, but the initial feelings were of just freedom within my own body.
Melissa Ceria [00:16:13] Surely you had to learn to understand your body differently. Did that take you time?
Christian Bagg [00:16:20] No. I mean, it all just got so easy. Like, everything was so hard. And now all of a sudden, it's easy.
Melissa Ceria [00:16:28] You mean after you had the surgery?
Christian Bagg [00:16:30] Yeah. So it would be like if you'd been studying Calculus for two years, and then one day someone's like, oh, you just need to add numbers under ten. You're like, oh, done. I can do this all day.
Melissa Ceria [00:16:44] Right? So suddenly the path sort of clears for you after this surgery and you get to it. You start building your own wheelchair, but you encounter some challenges. What was that process like? And, and how did it pave the way for your innovative work?
Christian Bagg [00:17:06] Well, well that's, that's exactly it. I got rid of my, my, physical challenges of dealing, of fighting with my own body. And then, I got to go out and try and do things and realized, I need to, yeah, like you said, get to work and start fighting my way into those, in a more positive sense. It always did selfishly start with me. What do I, what does Christian Bagg want to do? And then encountering a barrier, whether it's hiking or climbing or biking or whatever it is. And then what is the very simple next step to get past it. As a business owner, now, if you know when you encounter a problem, you have a lot of things to think about with employees, with project planning, with this, with that, but if you're trying to solve a problem for yourself, it gets really simple. Your only plan is to overcome that immediate thing. So it was, the innovation loop happened quickly. It was like, get in chair, go outside, can't go further. What could help you go further? Go back home. Make it. Go back outside. Can you make it further? Yes. So if it's putting mountain bike tires on a chair or a bigger front wheel on a chair, eventually you get to a problem and you're like, oh, there's realistically, there's no way to make this wheelchair better. So then, then what is it? Is it a, is it a bike? Well, that helps people on feet get further into the mountains or, you know, further down the road.
Melissa Ceria [00:18:39] To what extent do you think that this accident strengthened your creative thinking?
Christian Bagg [00:18:45] It's funny, I hadn't thought about it that way. If we're strictly saying. If we’re strictly talking about being creative, in some ways, I'd say I lucked out as far as this, as far as adaptive equipment being my avenue. Because it's so bad. There's so little innovation. If you're, you know when you're teaching a child how to do something, you encourage them, right? That's how you, that's how you get them to move in the right direction. And if you're trying to be a designer and your task is to design adaptive equipment. Every day is encouragement because there's nothing done. If you think of an idea, there's a good chance it's a good idea. So I really was enabled to move forward because everything I did was better than what was out there.
Melissa Ceria [00:19:41] I mean, you've openly expressed frustration that the wheelchair industry saying that it hasn't pushed the envelope enough on innovation.
Christian Bagg [00:19:50] Hasn't even opened the envelope. There's a stack of mail sitting there that the industry hasn't even opened yet.
Melissa Ceria [00:19:58] What's overdue, Christian?
Christian Bagg [00:20:00] Everything is overdue. Both from a technology standpoint and a service standpoint. You've got a fat and lazy industry, is my look at it. And I know this because from 28 years ago when I broke my back, wheelchairs look almost identical. And if you look at a toaster from 28 years ago, compared to today, they look different. Or a tennis racket or a car or a backpack or a pair of pants. Like, name something that doesn't look different than it did 30 years ago. Other than the wheelchair. Which is crazy. Because you are still looking at like a 3 to 10,000 dollar piece of equipment. They were aluminum and now they're, some of them are titanium, but it's just the tubing. The titanium ones are really no different from the aluminum ones. Aluminum is a good material. So the, the equipment hasn't changed. There's very little argument to that. And because when Bowhead came out with their bikes, like we started as a teeny tiny company in my basement, and now we are the dominant force in Off-Road Adaptive Mountain Biking. Nobody compares to us because we innovated. Then there's the service side, which is how you buy and sell things for disabled people. I know this from talking to hundreds of people, but generally people feel really marginalized and not, not part of the discussion. Insurance companies pay for chairs, there's rules about okay, well, you don't look that healthy, maybe you don't need that, that wheelchair is not right for you, that's for more of an athlete. It's like, well, what if I want to be an athlete? We're not talking about sports-specific chairs. You're just talking about pigeonholing someone into what their life is going to be like.
Melissa Ceria [00:22:01] Are you saying that people are not involved enough in being able to make the right choices for themselves?
Christian Bagg [00:22:07] Yes, absolutely. And I think a lot of it is because of, also because of the technology, because, so if wheelchairs aren't very adjustable now you do need someone to measure you and fit you, whereas if it was adjustable, you could get it and then modify it to your lifestyle. If you gain weight, you make it wider. If you lose weight, you make it skinnier. If you get taller, you make it higher. So on, so forth. So, chairs, without getting too technical about them, they just, they don't offer a lot of opportunities for the person to make it theirs. If they get it right, when they order it, when the other, when the person who fits them orders it, then you can end up with a great wheelchair. But if you get it wrong, that's what you've got for the next 3 to 5 years. Be like if you accidentally bought a pair of size 14 shoes, that's it for five years. Enjoy your shoes.
Melissa Ceria [00:23:04] Except individuals spent over nine hours a day in a wheelchair. Right? And so. So to imagine that it is not designed in a way that suits them and that supports them must be very frustrating.
Christian Bagg [00:23:19] Or represents them.
Melissa Ceria [00:23:21] Right.
Christian Bagg [00:23:21] Those old bent-tube chairs that are still around. Like I said, if you get it right, if you measure it right, you can be sat in a great position and have a great chair. But it's still the same chair everyone else on the planet has. And it's important to people and the chair, it's not about bedazzling something or making it kitschy. It's the design of something. If you're going to be in it, like you said, nine or I'm in my chair 16 hours a day. It is part of me, and I'd like to be proud of what it is. It'll affect how I feel about myself. It certainly did when I was first injured, and it does for everybody. When you, when you go from a hospital bed into a rental chair, because your chair isn't ready. Nostradamus wasn't there thinking, ooh, Christian’s going to need an awesome chair in about two and a half months. So you get injured and then you're in a rental chair. You kind of learn what you want. It could be six months or a year down the road before you even get a chair. And you're in a really delicate time of your life.
Melissa Ceria [00:24:29] Yeah. Of course.
Christian Bagg [00:24:30] If you're ever going to be self-conscious about being in a wheelchair, it's in the first year when you're brand new to a wheelchair. I have vivid memories of being in this giant hunk of junk with tags on it that says, like rental and hospital. It's not even an insensitive system. Insensitive would mean that there was some thought. It's just an effortless, a without effort system. It's like no one's decided to try and make this better. And it's so easy.
Melissa Ceria [00:25:03] It sounds like there are so many opportunities, and we are maybe stepping into a new era where innovation will come forward and like smart devices or self-driving wheelchairs. What are some of the developments that we are hopefully on the threshold of seeing?
Christian Bagg [00:25:24] Yeah, I mean, I think you're, you're right there. There's this huge world of robotics and AI and electric things that, that are getting smaller and smaller and lighter and lighter and smarter, which does give someone more mobility. If you think about a power chair, a power chair can be upwards of 300 pounds, which if it does everything it's supposed to do, it's still a 300-pound device, because lots of power chairs still have, like, lead acid batteries, like in your car, which is crazy heavy. There is this opportunity to streamline the technology, and I really focus on the technology. Not that I'm against, like the ADA, like the Disabilities Act, that makes things more accessible. I just think about the what if it isn't? Can the tool that I have negate that? Can my chair change widths so that if I do encounter a bathroom door that I can't get through, that it will shrink and then I can. Instead of lobbying to get the door made wider, I have to pee right now. So what do I do to get to pee now? And then, then tell someone else and they’ll lobby and they'll do that kind of work.
Melissa Ceria [00:26:36] At Bowhead, you will be introducing wheelchairs, is that correct?
Christian Bagg [00:26:40] Yes. That's our next move.
Melissa Ceria [00:26:43] It's interesting because these bikes have afforded people, you know, it's a gateway to a lot of adventure, a lot of freedom. It's very inspiring. And so you're entering a slightly different market here. What is important to you as you step into that space, and what do you want to communicate to people?
Christian Bagg [00:27:02] It's a really big move. I've done wheelchairs in the past. I know a lot about wheelchairs. I've been in a wheelchair for 28 years, and we definitely recognize the huge responsibility we have to create something different. We've been able to give people a part of their life back here, an experience that they haven't had for a long time with the bikes. On the service side, we've created community, we've created sport development teams, we've created relationships between athletes that have nothing to do with us. We're a middleman, if you will, in these relationships. And so if we were to come out with something that was anything but what they're dreaming about, then we would fail. So we're guessing a lot about what they're dreaming about. Like what do they want? And they don't want what they've got.
Melissa Ceria [00:28:00] Right.
Christian Bagg [00:28:01] It’s the heaviest design project that I've been involved with, for sure. The early bikes, not that they're done in secret, but you kind of make one. You sell one, you get some feedback. And it evolved. And it turned out to be this wonderful thing. With a chair, people know that it's coming. It's coming out, and it's got to be good. And then the community around it has to be good. The way the experience of getting it, the experience of the social media surrounding it, everything has to be very Bowhead. We've got to do it right. The idea of speaking out of both sides of our mouth, you know, complaining about this industry. Because I think it sucks. And if we do anything that puts us on that side of the fence, I’d feel pretty dumb.
Melissa Ceria [00:28:52] You’ve got a big task ahead of you there.
Christian Bagg [00:28:54] We do have a big task. Everybody who buys a bike, gets a bike, is really excited about biking, going on about the freedom they'll get and what they'll do. But not everybody is excited about being in a wheelchair. And I get that. And even if they're picking it because they know it's going to be the best wheelchair for them, it still doesn't stop them from thinking, this isn't the life that I want. It's not. I don't want to be in this chair. So it'll be very different for a lot of the people on the Bowhead team who deal with customers and who are used to just getting like, emails of praise and wonderful pictures and videos. There’ll be people that are less happy, but those less happy people in some ways need a lot more attention than the happy people, Because this is our opportunity to maybe be that little thing that doesn't suck.
Melissa Ceria [00:29:49] Christian, part of what you've also been working towards, is, is building community. And presumably that will continue in your work going forward. Your videos and your stories that you share on your social media platforms, they're very inspiring. And you've expressed how important it is for you to communicate that quality in your work. We've talked about people who have had spinal cord injuries, but there are other people that find themselves using wheelchairs and your adaptive bikes, young people that were born with cerebral palsy or spina bifida. You also speak to those young people and you invite them to be part of that community. What does it mean to them?
Christian Bagg [00:30:35] Well, I don't know what it means to them, I know what it means to me. And I have young children and I've been a young child. I know how hard it is for little kids to go to school and be judged about what they're wearing, or to be ignored. So with the bikes, it was always exciting when we made a bike for a kid, like put the best brakes on it, put the, put the best shocks, put the best tires. And I don't mean like good ones. I mean like, like, the same brakes at the World Cup champion, like, make it the best. And in some ways I would argue that, you know, maybe they don't need it more than the World Cup champion, but they need it more than the dentist or the lawyer that bought them. Because when this kid goes to school and kids are like, oh man, my mom and dad, they don't even have a bike this good. The fact that you can give a little bit of praise and a little bit of coolness to a kid is really important to us. And now that I have kids, thinking about what they would go through, I want them to look at the things Bowhead builds, like my kids, and go like, that's cool, because if they say, that's cool, then I know that the kid who's getting it is thinking, because kids are pretty similar.
Melissa Ceria [00:31:49] Christian, I'm going to ask you before we leave, which race are you entering next? What are you looking forward to?
Christian Bagg [00:31:56] The next race is the gravel race at the Sea Otter Classic in Monterey, California. So I’ve got until April.
Melissa Ceria [00:32:03] And when does that take place?
Christian Bagg [00:32:05] Mid-April. And so that's a huge show for us. North America's biggest bike show. Everyone should go. It's amazing. They've been so accepting of us and the adaptive community, to the point where we had 26 riders at the beginning of the downhill last year, up from, you know, zero four years ago. The cycling community has been a little glimpse into what the adaptive community can be just as far as acceptance and rolling with the punches and having fun. Not overcomplicating it.
Melissa Ceria [00:32:39] Christian, thank you so much. And I wish you all the best.
Christian Bagg [00:32:44] Thank you for having me. Okay. Thank you.
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